Bridlington & Wolds Scale Model Club Forum
Models => Modelling Projects => Topic started by: Haddock on February 14, 2020, 10:19:54 AM
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Got these from Croppers at different times because I felt they were different enough to make an interesting display. See what you think.
This was quite an important ship. It took part in the raids on Scarborough, Whitby and Hartlepool although not actually firing any shots. It was at the battle of Jutland and fired the first shots at the start of WW2.
Although the box says 1935, some research shows that late 1936 is actually a more accurate representation as modelled.
As your probably aware, I've been a bit under the weather lately so modelling has taken a bit of a back seat. When it was time I thought I should get my lazy self started again, anything complex or fiddly seemed out of the question so I thought some "crash bang whollop" type of modelling might fit the bill, so to give myself enough to do, starting both seemed a good idea.
Here's progress to date. The pictures probably speak for themselves. Water-lined and lots of dry fitting but not a great deal stuck together other than with Humbrol Maskol so I can rip it apart.
I need to do this so I can plan where the rigging will fall, sus out how to re-engineer the masts and other stuff, then plan the painting.
Haddock.
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Just to show the most noticeable between 1935 and 1936, note the "swallows nests" on the port bow, starboard side is the same.
Haddock.
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Nice to have you back modelling again.
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Nice to have you back modelling again.
No its just nice to have you back.
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Yes, nice to have you back, and modelling too.
Bigkev
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Thought it was time to work on one model and get a bit more adventurous.
So here's the main-mast on the 1908 version, a mix of brass tube, rod, etched brass and plastic, bit fiddly.
Haddock.
Taken with flash hence the lousy colour.
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Here's a couple that are a bit better.
Haddock.
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Both masts.
Haddock.
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Looks like another excellent model for the Haddock Navy.
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Thankyou kind sir.
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Hi Haddock,
Looking good, I always like your 'Dreadnought' era ships, they have real character in them.
Cheers,
Bigkev
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1936 Version.
Think this is as far as I can go before sloshing some paint on.
Lot of attachment points for rigging added, you can't see 'em but they're there, honest.
Haddock.
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1908 Version.
Next job a tidy up.
Then an orgy of sloshing paint on both models.
Haddock.
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How come your sloshing paint on never looks like when I have sloshed some paint on ???????
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I slosh with gay abandon.
Haddock.
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I slosh with gay abandon.
Haddock.
See what a spell in hospital does for you!
Glad to have you back, showing the way forward on ship modelling...
Bigkev
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Some paint sloshed on the 1908 version.
Not sure about the colours.
According to various descriptions, Trumpeter ain't got it quite right
but I'll stick with what I've got. The Germans weren't all that bothered about
accurate colours, more in the performance of the paint as a protective
coating so some artistic licence is acceptable. More about this later.
One or two bits and bobs added.
At this stage, I think I'll put it on one side and do a bit to the 1936 version.
Haddock.
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Hi Tony, nice to see you posting again, the ship looks excellent as always.
I notice that the front anchor chain is in tension and not on the deck, have you done this on purpose?
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It looks like that on one or two pics I've seen.
There's no evidence of any stoppers to take the weight
of the anchors so it could be brakes on the capstans that
hold the weight. I might give them a bit more sag, dunno yet.
Haddock.
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I just thought they were pretty heavy and would sag quite a lot.
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Hi Haddock,
Great build, look forward to the 1915 version in due course.
Cheers,
Bigkev
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I just thought they were pretty heavy and would sag quite a lot.
I think you're right, I'll see if I can get some more sag.
Haddock.
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I just thought they were pretty heavy and would sag quite a lot.
I think you're right, I'll see if I can get some more sag.
Haddock.
It was not a criticism, I just assumed you knew something that I didn't. Maybe the anchors were down or being raised and this caused tension in those huge anchor chains.
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A fresh pair of eyes is always welcome.
You would expect more sag than I've added,
even if the chain doesn't actually touch the deck
at it's lowest point.
I'll give it some more. It's fixed with PVA, so it should stretch a little.
Am I becoming a rivet counter, heaven forbid.
Haddock.
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A fresh pair of eyes is always welcome.
You would expect more sag than I've added,
even if the chain doesn't actually touch the deck
at it's lowest point.
I'll give it some more. It's fixed with PVA, so it should stretch a little.
Am I becoming a rivet counter, heaven forbid.
Haddock.
Ah,
But you will only be a little rivet counter....!
Bigkev
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It's always good to see your ships come together Haddock and the information you share makes a great read too. These types of ships fascinate me - I may have to be brave and give one a go...once I get my current project done!
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Yes Wizz come over to the dark side - hohohoho
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It's always good to see your ships come together Haddock and the information you share makes a great read too. These types of ships fascinate me - I may have to be brave and give one a go...once I get my current project done!
The worse that can happen is that you're not pleased with the result, so get stuck in.
It's just like any other model but, usually more to do, so it takes longer.
Haddock.
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So true. It's very easy to get disheartened at the standard of some people's output but I'm well past that now. Time has been my enemy of late but that's at arm's length for the time being. I may see what online bargains are on offer then...
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Hey up Wizzel,
Those cheeky nautical types are 'reeling' you in.
Beware, once Haddock and Msea, get their hooks into you and ship modelling, you'll never be the same again.
You might be a wiser, better modeller with their input and advice, but never the same again.
However seeing a 'ship model' from you would be a first...!
Cheers,
Bigkev
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Just one or two bits and bobs to add and both ships are at the same stage.
Then the fun starts, railings, masts and rigging.
Haddock.
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Keeping you busy then.
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Just one or two bits and bobs to add and both ships are at the same stage.
Then the fun starts, railings, masts and rigging.
Haddock.
Plenty to do in self-isolation,
Funny how things that happen, give us the opportunity to go forward.
Cheers,
Kevin
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What is next for the Haddock navy ????
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I may start HMS York. I'm partly governed by what I have on stock in the way of wood for bases.
I seem to be spending more time thinking than doing Zak.
Just a few words about paint and stuff.
Germany used the same colour scheme from about 1900 up to and including WW2.
Unless sporting a camouflage scheme, all capital ships were to be painted as follows (this comes from various written sources and ship modelling websites). The colours are generic, its up to the modeller to select a suitable colour.
The underwater hull is painted red-brown.
The boot topping is painted Anthracite grey.
The hull, up to the level of the main weather-deck is painted Squirrel grey.
Above the main weather-deck, all vertical surfaces are painted silver grey.
The masts are painted silver grey to a point level with the funnel tops, then black to a point
level with the upper yards, then silver grey to the mast-heads.
Main decks were varnished wood, those above the main deck were covered in Linoleum, which was a reddish brown, or painted dark grey then wood gratings added where suitable.
The linoleum was laid in strips which were six feet wide, the edges held down with two inch wide
brass strips.(Not supplied in the kit and positions not marked on the plastic).
This may test my imagination.
The Germans weren't too fussy about colour, more on the properties of the paint so some artistic licence is OK.
The brass, as supplied looks very nice but in a lot of instances, doesn't fit, if anything, it's too long so just hangs over the edge when folded to shape. I've done better by resorting to generic stuff.
The railings around the weather deck are just generic strips, not custom lengths which is a bit mean.
Haddock.
More waffle later.
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Love your waffle
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Love your waffle
Keep up the waffle, not too much thinking mind you!
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I'm enjoying the waffle. I now need to learn what boot toppings, weather decks and such like are. I suspect that was the point of the exercise, to gently lure us in!
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Getting you onto the dark side is just like "fly fishing" -- now I will have to get out my latest ship of Haddock will be giving me a hard time.
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Getting you onto the dark side is just like "fly fishing" -- now I will have to get out my latest ship of Haddock will be giving me a hard time.
You Boater's are very naughty.
Ooops, said 'Boater's, not a nautical term, but likely to get a response....
Bigkev
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Was that boaters or floaters ????? we will win in the end -- just think when a ship runs out of fuel it still floats, when an airplane runs out of fuel ?????
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Looking good Tony
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Thanks Chris.
Now I'm feeling disgruntled.
The first shot is the drawing of the upper deck on the 1908 version showing the railings.
I've just had a good measure, it's now obvious that they're not going to fit. They should be custom
made with relief etching on the bends and everything the correct length, they're not, in some instances, not anywhere near. There's etching where it shouldn't be and some of the straight runs are the wrong
length.
Very frustrating, annoying and expensive as I'll have to resort to my stock of generic stuff and get the best out of the Trumpeter stuff.
I hope the 1936 version is better.
Besides that, the rest is coming along reasonably well.Even got a bit of rigging on. I'm impressed with the way the plank detail is represented, pity the brass lets it down.
The pictures should speak for themselves.
Haddock.
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The joys of modelling.
Looking good.
The chain look right.
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Hi Haddock,
Only a master of the art of shipbuilding would know the failings of the kit.
For us mere mortals, we wouldn't know or realise.
Hats off to you, Sir!
Bigkev
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The joys of modelling.
Looking good.
The chain look right.
Pleased about that.
Cheers.
Haddock.
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How do you do it ??????????
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Sometimes with great difficulty but always with joy in my heart.
Haddock.
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Each one of these ships is more lovely than the last. That chain is exquisite.
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Are you pulling his chain Wizz
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No, he thought he could make a link....
Bigkev
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I was after some sort of reaction!
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1936 version.
This could be fun, already it's obvious that there are some errors.
There is a short piece of railing, PE-D19, that would interfere with the placement of
the boat handling crane if bent as depicted, easily sorted but what else will I find, there look to be lots
of bends to go at, hope I can get 'em all in the right place.
Haddock.
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Some good BRASS ACTION going on there. 8)
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Cheers Andy.
Job jobbed.
Bit more rigging added.
Haddock.
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Excellent work, great a masterclass really in small scale precision.
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Just gob smacked
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Heavenly Stuff!
Where do you hide your 'Angel Wings?'
Inspirational modelling at its best..!
Cheers,
Bigkev
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Flippin' 'eck chaps, no need to wax lyrical,
a simple "not bad" will do.
Haddock.
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OK -- its not bad -- hohohoho
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OK -- its not bad -- hohohoho
No, its not bad it is great.
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Excellent work always amazes me the work that goes into these ships.
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I wish I had the time not to mention the ability to do justice to a kit like this. It is my firm intention to build some sort of floaty thing to any standard in the very near future - so it's a start!
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Main-mast added with a bit of rigging.
Haddock.
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It is all so clean, how do you do it?
Almost perfection, maybe I need to learn about hoovering.
For a dirty greasy engineer that is - sorry Tony I couldn't resist, I am prepared for the backlash.
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you have a rare skill there Mr Haddock... and long may you reign!
Biggles
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you have a rare skill there Mr Haddock... and long may you reign!
Biggles
Agree!!!
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It is all so clean, how do you do it?
Almost perfection, maybe I need to learn about hoovering.
For a dirty greasy engineer that is - sorry Tony I couldn't resist, I am prepared for the backlash.
Have you seen my room?
I'll send a pic later, perhaps we could start a gallery of members modelling spaces.
I'll start a new topic unless someone hi-jacks it first.
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I guess I can call the 1936 version rigged.
Now back to 1908.
Some railings added.
Haddock.
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I am off for a lie down, its all too much for me.
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Magic!
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I really do like these older dreadnoughts with all those little turrets hidden away everywhere. One day, I may have a go at one. One day.
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1908 version.
Mainmast fixed in position and a bit of rigging added.
Haddock.
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Hi Tony, I just happened to be on line as you were posting this.
It's all been said.
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Cheers.
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A bit of rigging - that is an understatement -- you know what I think of your ships !!!!
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Sometimes brass railings can be quite challenging to bend.
Haddock.
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Sometimes brass railings can be quite challenging to bend.
Haddock.
That's a fair old challenge.
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How do you do it !!! the air would have been blue over my work bench and the rails would not be symmetrical or anything like correct
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How do you do it !!! the air would have been blue over my work bench and the rails would not be symmetrical or anything like correct
Sometimes with great difficulty but always with joy in my heart!
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Nice when you manage to get a reasonable fit. The camera sees things that my eyes can't.
Haddock.
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Nice when you manage to get a reasonable fit. The camera sees things that my eyes can't.
Haddock.
Still looks good though.
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Sorry Zak,
I disagree...
It looks bloomin' brilliant!
Bigkev
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Fore-mast fixed in place and rigged plus some bits on the funnels.
After looking at umpteen pictures, not necessarily this ship but ships in the
same class, this is my best effort as to what I think the rigging MAY have looked like.
Old pictures aren't all that helpful, and why should they be. The box art looks nice
but when you look more closely there are lots of collisions.
Haddock.
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Just nice Haddock,
Simple,
Just Nice,
Bigkev
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Well that's both ships at more or less the same stage, so what's left to do?
Ships boats to paint and add.
Boat handling cranes to finish, they need some "re-engineering" to look right.
Weather deck railings to add, lots of 'em.
Some subtle weathering, both versions would have been "clean".
Anchors and one or two other bits and bobs to add.
Bases to make, models to fit on bases, lids to make, sea to add.
I can make the bases as I have the wood but that's as far as it goes till after "lockdown" when
I can get to the woodyard for wood for the lids. I can't fit the ships to their bases till the lids are made.
Haddock.
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Great work Tony, It may be a while before you get to the woodyard.
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Look Great, as usual!
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Surprising how three bits of plastic can cause so much hassle.
You're looking at a pair of davits and a ships boat. The davits attach to the sides of the lower boat deck,
then the boat is suspended from the davits and lashed back so as not to destroy itself in heavy weather.
In practice, the davits pivot from the bottom placing the boat over the water ready to be lowered.
How this is meant to happen is a secret known only to Trumpeter.
Here's my solution.
Fix the davits to a piece of card in their finished position.
A strategically placed piece of sprue allows the boat to nestle comfortably in its stowed position resting on three points.
Now there's something to fasten the lashings to to hold the boat in place.
I should be able to tix all this as a sub-assy after painting.
Hope that makes sense.
Haddock.
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The joys of modelling, still a challenge for you.
As we have discussed before, you would think that someone would have built the kit before going into production to iron out any problems, the same with any etched brass.
Do they just assume that because modern CAD systems are so good it will be right?
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Another idea I will steal from you - thanks Haddock
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The joys of modelling, still a challenge for you.
As we have discussed before, you would think that someone would have built the kit before going into production to iron out any problems, the same with any etched brass.
Do they just assume that because modern CAD systems are so good it will be right?
This sort of ship/davit problem seems to crop up many times so I've done it before, just not said 'owt.
As for CAD, it's only as good as the bloke pressing the keys.
"I ain't what yer got, it's what yer do with it that matters".
Haddock.
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Bit more bent brass, there's four like this (two each hand actually)
Haddock.
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Your folded brass is incredible Tony. The detail is fantastic.
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Thanks Chris.
Job jobbed.
Haddock.
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Great job.
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Ta!
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Ta!
Now touch up all those brassy bits - just so you don't get too pleased with yourself.
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Looks like another Class winning model Maestro...
... assuming we actually get to another model show at some point in the distant future that is!
Biggles
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I'm with Zak -- photos are a pain in the b** - they show every little bit of missing paint on the rails -- but even with that its excellent Haddock another masterpiece.
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Ta!
Now touch up all those brassy bits - just so you don't get too pleased with yourself.
Later, lots more to go on yet.
Haddock.
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The Master at work.
Great stuff.
Andy.
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Mind Bending Stuff Haddock
Bigkev
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Time to think about adding rails to the main and lower weather decks.
Drawings first so you can see what we're faced with.
Trumpeter have supplied six lengths of railing, three each side, all identical at 124m long with 4mm between stanchions.
The model is 365mm long measured at deck level on the centreline, so around the hull will be more. 3x124=372 so not much to spare.
On the drawings, the parts are labelled PE-A1, to bend them as shown on the drawings is a mathematical impossibility, the midship section just ain't long enough for a start.
Just as an aside, on all the pictures I've looked at, with the ship under way, the ladders with handrails are only there from the quarter-deck to the lower quarter-deck so I've followed suit.
I scratched my head for a while then thought " stop moaning and get on with it, ignore all the silly little kinks around the midship section and hope for the best"
You can see the result on the port-side main deck.
I've got a piece of brass left about 6mm long, so just enough.
Haddock.
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There's as much time goes into the research as the build I think. Well worth it though and a lot more difficult than aircraft I suppose as there were less of each type and as they became "unavailable" they were a lot less "accessible" being at the bottom of the ocean rather than wheels up in a ploughed field.
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That is great work and keep bending the brass.
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Time to think about adding rails to the main and lower weather decks.
Drawings first so you can see what we're faced with.
Trumpeter have supplied six lengths of railing, three each side, all identical at 124m long with 4mm between stanchions.
The model is 365mm long measured at deck level on the centreline, so around the hull will be more. 3x124=372 so not much to spare.
On the drawings, the parts are labelled PE-A1, to bend them as shown on the drawings is a mathematical impossibility, the midship section just ain't long enough for a start.
Just as an aside, on all the pictures I've looked at, with the ship under way, the ladders with handrails are only there from the quarter-deck to the lower quarter-deck so I've followed suit.
I scratched my head for a while then thought " stop moaning and get on with it, ignore all the silly little kinks around the midship section and hope for the best"
You can see the result on the port-side main deck.
I've got a piece of brass left about 6mm long, so just enough.
Haddock.
What's 6mm amongst friends??
Bigkev
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Boat handling cranes. Credit to Trumpeter, the plastic to brass fit is very good.
Haddock.
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Weather-deck railings finished.
Haddock.
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Great brass folding. Looking forward to seeing the finished model.
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How --- that is all I can say again
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I guess that's the 1936 version done, except for it's base of course.
Haddock.
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Another excellent model for the Haddock navy - enjoyed seeing this one made.
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Wonderful.
And its a good looking ship.
Well done.
Andy.
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What a beauty. They really should make them like this still!
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1906 version.
Ships boats fitted.
Haddock.
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That looks superb.
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That's a lot of detail.
Grate stuff.
Andy.
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The detail is exquisite
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Thanks guys.
Haddock.
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Are the funnel bands painted ?????
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Are the funnel bands painted ?????
Yes.
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Boat handling cranes added and rigged, start made on the weather deck railings.
Haddock.
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I have run out of words, I just love those old ships.
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Hi Zak,
I agree, Haddock's Shipyard keeps putting out models that are just superlative.
No description really reflects the skill of the man.
True respect for all his builds.
Bigkev
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I have run out of words, I just love those old ships.
Trumpeter are in the process of issuing "SMS Viribus Unitis" and "SMS Szent Istvan",
both Austro-Hungarian dreadnaughts, I've put them on my watching list at Hannants.
Haddock.
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Was the Viribus Unitis the one sunk by frogmen hours after she was given over to the new Yugoslavian navy ????
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Was the Viribus Unitis the one sunk by frogmen hours after she was given over to the new Yugoslavian navy ????
Dunno …………….yet.
Haddock.
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Was the Viribus Unitis the one sunk by frogmen hours after she was given over to the new Yugoslavian navy ????
Dunno …………….yet.
Haddock.
Here's a picture of it.
Haddock.
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This is the "SMS Szent Istvan", note the platform around the funnels and the lack of
anti-torpedo nets, I think this is a more interesting looking ship, although, both would be nice.
Haddock.
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What are they doing at the bow of the Szent Istvan ????
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What are they doing at the bow of the Szent Istvan ????
How should I know, don't ask daft questions.
Thought you might know!!
Haddock.
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All I could think was they had a small boat on the stbd side and loading stores/etc - but as you say who knows
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What are they doing at the bow of the Szent Istvan ????
How should I know, don't ask daft questions.
Thought you might know!!
Haddock.
After giving the matter some serious thought here's one or two answers to your question.
They could be the anchor party making ready.
OR they could be having a game of conkers.
OR it could be a group of cadets undergoing training.
OR it could be a game of hopscotch.
OR they could be discussing the relative merits of various composers or poets.
OR the derrick could be a big fishing rod and they're fishing for their supper.
OR a load of sailors telling mucky jokes (highly unlikely)
Hope this helps.
Haddock.
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What are they doing at the bow of the Szent Istvan ????
How should I know, don't ask daft questions.
Thought you might know!!
Haddock.
After giving the matter some serious thought here's one or two answers to your question.
They could be the anchor party making ready.
OR they could be having a game of conkers.
OR it could be a group of cadets undergoing training.
OR it could be a game of hopscotch.
OR they could be discussing the relative merits of various composers or poets.
OR the derrick could be a big fishing rod and they're fishing for their supper.
OR a load of sailors telling mucky jokes (highly unlikely)
Hope this helps.
Haddock.
Now your just being silly.
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Who me never.
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Those photos are packed with detail.
Wonderful.
Andy.
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This is the "SMS Szent Istvan", note the platform around the funnels and the lack of
anti-torpedo nets, I think this is a more interesting looking ship, although, both would be nice.
Haddock.
How do you know "the lack of anti- torpedo nets"?
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This is the "SMS Szent Istvan", note the platform around the funnels and the lack of
anti-torpedo nets, I think this is a more interesting looking ship, although, both would be nice.
Haddock.
How do you know "the lack of anti- torpedo nets"?
There are no booms around the hull to suspend the nets but there are on the sister ship.
So Viribus Unitis, booms. Szent Istvan, no booms.
Haddock.
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Hi Haddock,
An expert as always, with an understandable explanation.
Thanks for sharing this insight.
Cheers,
Bigkev
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Apart from mounting on a base, that's it, job jobbed for the 1906 version.
Haddock.
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Looking great
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Fantastic modelling as always.
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Excellent model Tony.
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Wonderful to see, as ever.
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Thankyou gentlemen, you're far too kind.
Haddock.
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No, we are not kind.
We are truthful, and our comments reflect our respect and admiration of your modelling skills and knowledge/research.
If this was a school report, I would give you A++++
Cheers,
Bigkev
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Fantastic stuff again. Thanks for the info about torpedo nets
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Top Class Tony.
I can look at your models for ages. Just loads to see.
Well done.
Andy.
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Hi Haddock,
Excellent work as always, we are now ready for an update to satisfy our desires.
Cheers,
Bigkev