Bridlington & Wolds Scale Model Club Forum
Models => Modelling Projects => Topic started by: Haddock on July 26, 2017, 09:44:39 AM
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Next project folks. Got this at North Shields from Mike at Starling Models. £55.00. Sounds a lot but everything is in the box to produce the model without resorting to any aftermarket stuff.
There are eleven sprues of light grey plastic and four etched brass frets plus some chain and a small sheet of transfers. If you weren't bothered about adding any rigging (brass masts), it's all there.
I've made a tentative start whilst waiting for the sea to dry on Danton but no photo's as yet. When I get the chance, I'll post some shots of the progress to date.
Haddock.
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That's an interesting looking thingy. Definitely not for beginners looking at all the sticky-outy bits on the box art.
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Just looking at the box - you should be OK it says 14+ - HoHoHo.
Was she the last pre dreadnought built about 1905.
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What period are you doing her - 1908 as built - 1915 Dardanelles - 1919 picking up Russian dukes etc from Black Sea.
Will look to see if I have any relevant photos or info in my books.
Looking forward to seeing this ship under construction.
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Just looking at the box - you should be OK it says 14+ - HoHoHo.
Was she the last pre dreadnought built about 1905.
That could mean "decades".
And yes, made obsolete, by HMS Dreadnought.
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What period are you doing her - 1908 as built - 1915 Dardanelles - 1919 picking up Russian dukes etc from Black Sea.
Will look to see if I have any relevant photos or info in my books.
Looking forward to seeing this ship under construction.
Any reference material would be most welcome, it's very sparse on t'internet. I think it's more or less "as built", but can't be sure.
By the look of some of the parts, Hobby-boss could be intending to release another version at a later date, or perhaps a sister ship, Agamemnon?
Haddock.
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Looks interesting enough, a bit different to other ships I have seen. Lots to do with this one, but shouldn`t be a problem for the master!
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Getting out of bed on a morning is a problem for me, never mind building a model!!
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Some progress has been made.
First thing to do is the water-lining process. Done. I've removed the bottom half of the kit spacers (the grey ones) and fitted some more just above the cut (the white ones). The grey ones aren't fixed yet. The plan is to paint the hull and the deck separately and then fit the deck. I want to re-create a weathered looking wooden deck, if I get it wrong first time I don't want to have to strip the whole model.
Then comes the Admirals walk, very nicely etched, unfortunately, the shape of the canopy hasn't been developed so when you try to get it to drop down from the edge of the deck, it won't, it does now but only with lots of bending rolling, twisting and filing. It should come flush with the deck but any more metal-bashing and I would have run out of brass so this is the best effort, should be OK under a coat of paint.
Now to the superstructure. the "additions" are to stiffen up the boat deck, it's less than 1mm thick, and to improve the fit and look of the deck, I'm not sure Hobby-boss have got it right. There was a gap that a sailor could have fallen down on a dark and stormy night.
Finally, what it may look like when stuck together.
Haddock.
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SOME progress? That's a whole 6 months' modelling for me! Looking very smart is that.
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Don't forget, I don't have to go out and work for a living and I have a very understanding wife!
And I started a few days ago.
Haddock.
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Don't forget, I don't have to go out and work for a living and I have a very understanding wife!
And I started a few days ago.
Haddock.
Are both of those true?
Excellent work Tony, especially the Admirals Walk.
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Hi Haddock,
Another masterpiece in the making for sure.
All that work in a few days..................!
I think my modelling work rate will have to increase to warp speed to just keep up.
Lovely stuff though from " The Master "
Cheers,
Bigkev
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Bit more progress folks.
Anti torpedo net shelf fitted to one side.
The first pic is an attempt to demonstrate the method.
The second is the result.
The next two are general shots of the finishes article. The whole shelf is made up of four sections and quite a nice fit though not perfect, and it's probably expecting too much for it to be so, we are supposed to be modellers aren't we? HB say the shelf should sit 0.6mm below the edge of the deck, I felt 1.0mm (scale14") looked better.
Here's the method, easier to do than to describe.
The model sits as you see it. The square tube has a piece of 1.0mm thick styrene glued on the end, with the brass sat on the pad, that should give the 1.0mm drop.
Tack the brass with PVA at a couple of places where it touches the plastic. (it may need persuading, hence the ruler). when the tacks have got a reasonable hold, run some Johnsons between the tack and allow to dry. Then tack each end, one at a time, allow to get hold, then repeat the Johnsons bit, allow to dry.
You should now be able to pick up the model and examine the result, if happy, run thin super-glue around the joint. If you don't like what you see, you can remove the brass before applying the superglue and start again, hopefully, no harm done.
By now, you've earned a cuppa and a fag.
Now go back and repeat another three time till the job is done.
Note that PVA (Gator grip thin blend) takes probably 20 mins to dry clear but maybe six hours to reach full strength and Johnsons needs about 30 mins to set so it's not a quick process. Thin super-glue is of course almost instant. The Johnsons does seem to encourage the super-glue to run along the joint.
There will be variations on this but, hopefully, you get the idea.
Haddock.
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Hi Haddock,
That explanation is worth a few thousand words!, and the pictures do show what you mean. Wether my fingers can be agile enough is another matter.
For me, starting to tackle of few submarines for now and using etch more and more, those little explanations move my modelling forward.
Cheers,
Bigkev
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Ever thought about producing a book showing your model ship building techniques Haddock? I am sure there will be a market for it.
Bridlufc
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I will buy 2 so I would be twice as good as I am now (that should make me about 25% HS)
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Ever thought about producing a book showing your model ship building techniques Haddock? I am sure there will be a market for it.
Bridlufc
It would probably cover half a sheet of A4 paper. I make it up as I go along, like we all do.
Just remember, a big problem is usually lots if little problems joined together, just knock 'em down one at a time.
Haddock.
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Words of wisdom from the master !!!
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Einstein said "Nothing in the universe is complicated, it is simply a series of simple things". ....The theory is sound, but the practice.........
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Net shelves on both sides now folks. Net booms fitted on one side. The kit items weren't very nice hence the brass efforts. Whilst the booms were setting I managed to get some of the armament built so I thought I'd bung it all together just to see the effect.
There is a bit of a problem with the net shelves. The support struts should be tucked underneath the shelf and make an angle of about 45deg, they're about 1mm too short to do this so they'll just have to dangle in space, probably won't be seen. There's 52 each side so I'm not going to chop 'em off and fit some more. Bit disappointing really.
Haddock.
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Looking Good........ as always!
Well done Mr 'Midas' Haddock!
Cheers,
Bigkev
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I was surprised to see that turret on the side with a single gun in it. Never thought about it before but it just looked "odd" to me - I always thought of ship's turrets having at least TWO guns. Are you sure you're not doing a cheeky MSea on us and making a hybrid ship/tank thing out of 2 kits ;)
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Here's the proof. Nuff said.
Haddock.
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I was surprised to see that turret on the side with a single gun in it. Never thought about it before but it just looked "odd" to me - I always thought of ship's turrets having at least TWO guns. Are you sure you're not doing a cheeky MSea on us and making a hybrid ship/tank thing out of 2 kits ;)
Haddock is 100% correct -- as always.
I don't understand your comment about me ??? I always make things that are 100% as seen and always follow the making instructions --- HoHoHo -- well in my head they are !!!!
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Is there an instruction leaflet for the idea's in your head, Msea??
I very much doubt it! You are one in a Million, or is that 100 Million??
One thing, there will never be another quite like you...............................at this point should I offer thanks?
Cheers,
Bigkev
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Is there an instruction leaflet for the idea's in your head, Msea??
One thing, there will never be another quite like you...............................at this point should I offer thanks?
Bigkev
The inside of my head is a "top secret" only MI5 and MI6 and the Doctors know this - ???
I think not just you but the WHOLE WORLD should give thanks there is only one of me.
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Was there a reason for that middle turret having just the one gun? On the plan, it looked to be the same size as the ones either side with the 2 guns. Just curious that's all.
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Hi Wizzel she had 4 x 12inch guns ford and aft and the rest 9.2inch.
From my reading they wished for maximum number of large guns because they found at longer ranges the 6inch was not effective. They also had to keep the beam at 79ft 6inch so she could use existing docks. So the strange idea of double and single gun turrets.
During the design stage it was proposed she was fitted with 16 x 10inch guns but this put the beam up to 82ft - so was dropped. She would then have been the FIRST all big gun ship instead of the Dreadnought.
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Was there a reason for that middle turret having just the one gun? On the plan, it looked to be the same size as the ones either side with the 2 guns. Just curious that's all.
The middle turret with the single gun is noticeably smaller, not very clear on the drawing.
Haddock.
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One gun or two, it is still an awesome looking beast. Great Project!
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Cheers Haddock and MSea. Great information.
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Here's a bit of an exercise in "brass bashing". Each grill is made up of two parts so a bit fiddly, I'm quite pleased with the result.
Next comes the for'ard spotting top, thought I should make a start on the masts. The canopy supports aren't provided in either plastic or brass. The secret is to get all four the right length so that the canopy sits nice and square. the method, which seems to have worked is to drill a suitable piece of card, plop it over the supports and use it to cut and sand to length. Job jobbed.
You can see the result, with some more stuff added, including the start of the top-mast.
Last shot is the plastic top-mast which will be replaced with a brass effort.
Haddock.
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Lovely stuff.
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Magic does exist and is called Haddock.
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Been doing some research and sussing out ways of "making things possible".
I've decided to model the ship as she was in 1914, round about the out-break of war.
During 1914, she was the flagship of the Cannel Fleet which was commanded by Vice-admiral Sir Cecil Burney (he was promoted to full Admiral in 1916). I've found a picture of her in 1914 wearing the flag of a Vice-admiral so it looks to be spot on.
An Admiral of the fleet would fly the union flag at the mast-head, a full Admiral, the cross of St George, a Vice-admiral, the cross of St George with a red spot in the top quarter adjacent to the mast and a Rear-admiral, the cross of St George with a red spot in both quarters adjacent to the mast. (thought you might like to know that).
Next job is to check for any historical errors in the kit. All the specs I can find tell me that she was fitted with twenty-four 12pdr guns, all mounted above the level of the main and secondary armament. The kit depicts her with all 24, plus one atop each of the main and secondary turrets. There does appear to be "something there" where a gun could be fitted but I can't find any evidence, either photographic or written that they were ever fitted. So I chopped 'em off.
There should also be two 3 pdr's, one on the quarter-deck, can't find where the other goes as yet, looks like a visit to the spares box.
The rigging for the top-masts is attached to the ends of some of the gussets that support the spotting tops (thanks for the loan of the book Martin). If I were to follow the instructions, this wouldn't happen so a bit of "re-engineering" was in order. The positioning had to be changed, some of the lengths altered and the three that do the business lengthened with some 0.4mm rod.
HB would have you paint all the decks above the main weather deck the same colour as the rest of the ship, it just don't look right. I tried something a bit darker, still didn't look right. I know it was custom and practice to cover some steel decks with linoleum. To me it looks a bit more interesting so that's what I'll live with (artistic licence), darker grey for the gun deck and linoleum above that.
That's it for now folks, more to come in the fullness of time.
Haddock.
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Awesome attention to detail, I raise my hat to you sir.
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HB would have you paint all the decks above the main weather deck the same colour as the rest of the ship, it just don't look right. I tried something a bit darker, still didn't look right. I know it was custom and practice to cover some steel decks with linoleum. To me it looks a bit more interesting so that's what I'll live with (artistic licence), darker grey for the gun deck and linoleum above that.
That's it for now folks, more to come in the fullness of time.
Haddock.
What colour will you use for the linoleum ????????????????
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I've use Vallejo Model-air dark earth. Tamiya do a colour called Linoleum brown but it looks a bit garish to me. Some sources say use a red brown but I don't think all linoleum would be the same so I'm sticking with what looks right to me. I've used the same colour on Danton. It's surprising how colours look different when you get them next to each other.
Haddock.
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Anchor chains fitted. there looks to be something wrong to me. The hawse-pipes look to be pointing towards the centre-line of the ship too much, making a poor run for the chain, not much I can do about it.
All linoleum covered decks fitted. Anything above this will just be dark grey, more for interest than historical accuracy.
Look closely, you might see some funnel-stays.
Haddock.
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Bit more progress folks, this is where all the time goes, more thinking than doing.
Next little problem is the compass platform (part No G3), it goes on top of the wheel-house (etched brass again) the 1st two pics should explain it all. The etched brass looks too "skinny" to me, which agrees with my reference pics, so I've done a bit of "re-engineering". You can see the result, underneath, then perched in position.(not glued).
Haddock.
You're probably thinking I should get out more, you could be right.
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Bit more "re-engineering". The brass efforts are the bridge wings. HB would have you stick 'em in place with no other means of support, you have to be joking! I can just make out a support strut on one of my reference pictures.
Here's the solution.............then both in place. The support strut is a scale 6" dia, hopefully it will look finer with a coat of paint.
Haddock.
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Seems like a good time to add the funnel caps.
Haddock.
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I´ve said it before and I´ll say it again...It is a pleasure whatching you work, I learn so much from it. Thank you.
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Thank-you kind sir.
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Now then folks, thought I'd better send in my weekly report before I'm accused of being lazy.
A quick check on my reference material shows quite a substantial bracket on the fore-mast, below the compass platform to attach the stays for the lower mast, so I've made a start on it. (Now it's fitted)
Next job is to plan the layout of the boat derricks. Most manufacturers would have you fit the derricks wafting about in the breeze, which is where they would be if the ship was at anchor and the ships boats in use. However, depicting them as so when the ship is under way would be bad seamanship, they should be stowed almost horizontal, resting on a crutch, so this needs to be arranged. It means dry-fitting the masts and derricks and some boats to find a suitable position for a crutch.
I thought I would tackle the main-mast first, there's a shot of the instructions so you can see how it fits together. Note the pivot point where the derrick joins the mast, bit fragile to say the least so I've re-engineered it somewhat.
Then I needed to make some pulleys and fix 'em to the mast. I've used a string of floats and plastic discs, it don't look to bad from a distance.
The topmast is fabricated from brass tube.
Haddock.
The pictures aren't in the same order as the text but I'm sure you'll sort it out. I'll try to do better next time!!
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So now the main-mast and derrick are painted and fixed in place. Thought it would be a good time to bring the deck and hull together. Job jobbed.
Haddock.
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Very impressive... as always. I have some 1/350 pully blocks if you need them?
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Very impressive... as always. I have some 1/350 pully blocks if you need them?
I'd be interested to see these. I'm committed to the scratch-built efforts on this ship but for future projects, who knows.
Haddock.
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Seems a long time since my last visit, I'm building up to a post of epic proportions.
Meanwhile, here's a little exercise in bending etched brass.
Haddock
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Hi Haddock,
Nice to see you back in the groove, unlike some of us..................
Now that lovely etched brass took you all of 10 minutes to do..............................?
Or did it?
Cheers,
Bigkev
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Progress to date folks. No explanations, just pictures.
You should be able to blow some of these up to get a better view.
Haddock.
I'm away next week so watch this space.
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Just looking at the last few photos -- your attention to detail is excellent -- I am happy if the bits of plastic I make stick together.
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Agreed, another great looking model. I do enjoy seeing your builds, such an inspiration.